Katrina Erwin & Glennys Navarrete, CLEO Institute
Katrina Erwin
Glennys Navarrete
Katrina Erwin and Glennys Navarrete are program managers at the CLEO Institute and co-hosts of the House on Fire Podcast.
The CLEO Institute is a 501C3 nonprofit and nonpartisan organization, exclusively dedicated to climate education and advocacy. Founded in 2010, CLEO, which stands for Climate Leadership Engagement Opportunities, works with communities across Florida to build climate literacy and mobilize climate action.
Katrina focuses on helping youth activists leverage their power most effectively in state and local political settings. And Glennys leads CLEO's efforts at schools to educate students on climate issues and be more effective advocates.
We jump into a number of different topics about youth climate activism, including what climate education programs look like in schools, how parents can be most effective at supporting youth climate action, when youth activists should focus on collaboration or on resistance, the role of social media in climate action, and lastly, how to inspire kids to care about climate change in the first place.
Get connected:
Cody Simms
CLEO Institute
Katrina Erwin
Glennys Navarrete
MCJ Podcast / Collective
*You can also reach us via email at info@mcjcollective.com, where we encourage you to share your feedback on episodes and suggestions for future topics or guests.
Episode recorded on April 11, 2023.
In this episode, we cover:
[02:32] Glennys’s background and climate journey
[06:40] Katrina's background and climate journey
[12:36] The history and goals of the CLEO Institute
[16:03] Integrating climate curriculum into schools in an overly-politicized environment
[18:15] Avoiding "Trigger words" and misinformation
[19:25] How parents can play a role in youth climate activism
[25:49] Creating spaces where young people can be heard, not tokenized
[30:18] Empowering young people to engage in local politics
[35:25] "Power mapping" and using social media to research and contact local politicians
[39:22] Katrina's and Glennys's favorite climate influencers on social media, and the role of activists on social platforms
[40:44] Shifting climate conversations from “doom and gloom” to solutions-oriented, and from “polar bear” imagery to local reality
[45:08] The House on Fire podcast, and how to get involved with the CLEO Institute
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Cody Simms (00:00):
Today's guests are Katrina Erwin and Glennys Navarrete, Climate activists program managers at the CLEO Institute and co-hosts of the House on Fire Podcast.
(00:11):
The CLEO Institute is a 501C3 nonprofit and nonpartisan organization, exclusively dedicated to climate education and advocacy. Founded in 2010, CLEO, which stands for Climate Leadership Engagement Opportunities, works with communities across Florida to build climate literacy and mobilize climate action.
(00:33):
Katrina focuses on helping youth activists leverage their power most effectively in state and local political settings. And Glennys leads CLEO's efforts at schools to educate students on climate issues and be more effective advocates.
(00:48):
We jump into a number of different topics about youth climate activism, including what climate education programs look like in schools, how parents can be most effective at supporting youth climate action, when youth activists should focus on collaboration or on resistance, the role of social media in climate action, and lastly, how to inspire kids to care about climate change in the first place.
(01:12):
I'm so appreciative of the work that Glennys and Katrina are doing. So many people I speak with get into working on climate out of concern for their kids, so it was really eye-opening to me to hear about how kids themselves are thinking about climate change and doing something about it. But before we dive in, I'm Cody Simms.
Yin Lu (01:33):
I'm Yin Lu.
Jason Jacobs (01:34):
And I'm Jason Jacobs. And welcome to My Climate Journey.
Yin Lu (01:40):
This show is a growing body of knowledge focused on climate change and potential solutions.
Cody Simms (01:46):
In this podcast, we traverse disciplines, industries, and opinions, to better understand and make sense of the formidable problem of climate change, and all the ways people like you and I can help.
(01:58):
With that, Katrina, Glennys, welcome to the show.
Glennys Navarrete (02:04):
Hi, thanks for having us.
Katrina Erwin (02:05):
Hi. Thanks for having us. This is actually our first time being on the other side of the mic. So we're very, very excited to be here today.
Cody Simms (02:12):
I am so excited to have you and to learn from you. Maybe let's start with each of your backgrounds. So we're going to spend a bunch of time on what is the youth movement in climate, and what are trends you are seeing. But before we do that, let's get to know you. So whichever of you wants to go first, say your name and dive in with how you got into this cool space.
Glennys Navarrete (02:32):
My name is Glennys. I am here based in Miami, Florida. And it's funny, because my journey in the climate movement really didn't start here in Miami. It started when I was living in Nicaragua. Obviously, we know that the climate crisis impacts everyone differently. And just growing up, being a teenager and moving so young to a different country, it was complete culture shock.
(02:53):
But you start realizing how meaningful change, and especially in different countries, and how much you can really offer to bring back more opportunities for that. And it wasn't until I graduated high school over there, and I came back here and I started college, that I really just started focusing on environmental science. How can I get my hands dirty? How can I help? And that's how I came across the CLEO Institute. I started through their climate speakers network. I became a certified student.
Katrina Erwin (03:20):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Glennys Navarrete (03:20):
Yeah. Yeah, I got certified through CLEO.
Katrina Erwin (03:23):
That's so cool. Were you scheming?
Glennys Navarrete (03:26):
No. Actually, it was so funny because six months after I got certified, the announcement came through, CLEO's hiring. And I was like, well, this is my time. I was about to graduate, this is my time, I'm going to do it.
(03:39):
Actually, I started off as a program coordinator with CLEO, and then I am now the schools and youth associate program manager. I work a lot with the youth here in high school campuses in Miami and Broward County. It's because of Katrina that I focus more a lot on the advocacy part. Because it's one thing to get your hands dirty and know the science behind the environment, but then advocacy and policy? So she really put me onto that.
Cody Simms (04:04):
Awesome. Well, Glennys, I can't wait to dive into what you're hearing from students about their views on climate change, how they think all about it. We're going to spend a bunch of time on that for sure. And just to make sure I understood one thing, did you come to university in Miami specifically to study environmental sciences, or was that something you decided to do after you arrived at university?
Glennys Navarrete (04:23):
No. So growing up I was not a science major. I was like, no thank you. And it wasn't until I got to Nicaragua ... Because I was born and raised here, and then I moved back to high school. My mother, she was very sick and we decided just to make things easier on her, we would go back to her country. And so I spent high school over there.
(04:42):
And I really just didn't like what I saw when it came to the lack of climate awareness and education out there, and how beautiful the land really is, and how no one really knew how to protect it. And when I got back here, I did touch up on different careers, but always around science and the environment. And I just gravitated more towards the climate crisis because it's all connected.
(05:06):
I mean, what's the point in trying to save our forest if the culprit is climate crisis and who's behind that?
Cody Simms (05:12):
That's amazing. My personal, one of my lightning bolt moments to lean into climate was a trip I took to Haiti, actually. And seeing the amount of deforestation, as I was laying in the ocean, looking up on a mountain that was completely deforested. And just realizing that the focus on environmental protection, I guess is the right word, is just so different in different parts of the world, and where different economics impact people differently, and where exploitation frankly can run more wild.
(05:38):
And just thinking about what that is going to mean for people as they grow up and mature, it was really eye-opening to me. So interesting to hear that you had a somewhat similar experience when you went back to Nicaragua as a teenager.
Glennys Navarrete (05:48):
Yeah, no, absolutely. And then you want to fight every fight possible, and that becomes a little bit overwhelming. But one thing I have learned from being with CLEO, and just working along with Katrina, is that starting in your own backyard is a great way to make meaningful change, and spread, and share that message with others. Hopefully one day I can go back to Nicaragua and still implement the things that I want to do over there. But for now I think where I live, my backyard, it's time to take more action. Our country needs it.
Cody Simms (06:18):
Yeah. Being in South Florida, obviously we all have our own frontline fights when it comes to climate change. I'm in California, so wildfires are front and center to me, but obviously things like flooding and sea level rise are very front and center to you. And excited to learn more about the work that you all are doing on the ground in Florida. Maybe before we do that, Katrina, you can say hi and introduce yourself.
Katrina Erwin (06:38):
Yeah, absolutely. So my name's Katrina Erwin, and I think it's really funny when people say that I'm a youth climate activist. Because I didn't really get into climate activism at that prime youth age of being a youth climate activist. You think of these people at are 12.
Glennys Navarrete (06:54):
Oh, elementary now.
Katrina Erwin (06:55):
Elementary school. So I really started climate activism, in my opinion, very late in life. And I grew up in Miami. I saw all the impacts that climate was happening to our planet.
(07:07):
I remember I grew up on an island in Miami, and when I was 12 years old it was raining, and me and my friends, we were up to our knees in flood water and that was just a regular day. And I always knew that climate change was something that I had to be concerned about, but I really much thought, there's really nothing that I can do about this. And if it does happen, Miami can be the new Venice, and I could just go around on a jet ski and it would be really fun.
(07:33):
And that's not true because if you look at sea level rise, projections are buildings, which that perfect Venice community would even be in my, at the time imagination, would be completely underwater.
Cody Simms (07:44):
And I've heard, from what I understand, the first effects of sea level rise is less about water in the streets and more about sewage, which makes it really not fun.
Katrina Erwin (07:53):
Yeah, sewage, drinking water too. We actually have something here in Miami called Saltwater Intrusion. Where, because of sea level rise, saltwater's actually getting into our aquifers, and it's making it really difficult for people to have access to clean drinking water. And there's actually a Miami Herald article that says, Miami may be sinking, but we're going to be losing our fresh water first.
(08:14):
So that's something that I always knew was a thing, but I always thought, what am I to do about it? So I went to FSU for college. And I just wanted to do communications there, maybe get into business, just do sales. I wasn't thinking about doing anything special.
(08:29):
And I actually took an emergency management class when I was in college, because I majored in communications and minored in international affairs. And in my emergency management class, they made us do a book report. And there was a bunch of books that we had to choose from. And there was one book called Climate of Hope by Michael Bloomberg and Carl Pope.
(08:49):
And the only reason I chose that book was because I knew who Michael Bloomberg was. Everyone has their own opinions of him, and he's a capitalist who's a little shady. But at the time I didn't know anything. So I read that book and that book was all about the impacts, the science, and then most importantly, the solutions to the climate crisis.
(09:08):
And what got me really mad is, because this book just outlined all of the solutions that exist and are ready to be implemented. And I just, that's all I would talk about with people. And I was like, this is kind of bullshit. These solutions exist, and we have the chance to save our planet, and we're not doing anything about this.
(09:25):
So I decided that, I was 22 years old at the time, so that is kind of late when I said that. And I scrapped everything else that I wanted to do and I'm like, I want to do something with climate.
(09:36):
So I was looking up internships, and my boyfriend at the time actually just saw an organizer position for the Florida Climate Pledge on LinkedIn, which was a program that CLEO had at the time. I applied for the job. I didn't get it, but I kept following up with the person hiring. And she eventually called me, she's like, hey, you don't have any experience, but do you just want an unpaid internship for six hours a week?
(09:58):
And I said sure, because I really just wanted to get into it. And that was the CLEO Institute. So I got involved just doing administrative social media work. And I was doing some level of advocacy, federal and state and Tallahassee. But my local advocacy and my passion for local advocacy really didn't happen until I moved back to Miami in 2021.
(10:20):
I moved back here and here in Miami, the city of Miami, we have something called the Office of Resilience. And that office was created to help keep Miami resilient in the face of the climate crisis. And that office was getting defunded. They were trying to take away funding from that office.
(10:36):
And there was a coalition at the time called the Miami Climate Alliance that, they were going to these budget meetings. And CLEO's also part of the Miami Climate Alliance, and we were trying to ensure that not only did that office not get defunded, but it got $83,000 more in additional funding.
(10:54):
So moving back to Miami, I was doing work with another youth climate activist named Nicole Gazo. If you're listening, hi Nicole.
Glennys Navarrete (11:01):
Shout out to Nicole.
Katrina Erwin (11:03):
Shout out to Nicole. And Nicole went to University of Miami. I told Nicole about this, and Nicole was able to get everyone from her class to show up to this meeting. So it was through the power of youth that not only did the Office of Resilience not get defunded, it actually got almost half a million dollars in funding. And they were able to get another program manager for this position.
(11:26):
And that was really the moment that I was like, wow, everyone's focusing so much on federal advocacy and international advocacy, when the movement is actually here locally.
Cody Simms (11:36):
Where did the funding come from? Was it private capital? Was it state funding? Who got convinced?
Katrina Erwin (11:42):
Yeah, it was just city funding. So how things work in city of Miami, and if anyone's listening to this and they know about City of Miami government and I'm wrong, please come for me. I want to learn.
(11:52):
But what I believe happens is every year, the city as well as the county, they do their budget hearings and they have something called millage, which is basically their millions that they're going to be spending each year. And it's kind of the amount of money that the city has allocated for certain funding. So they were probably just shifting it around to do something else.
(12:09):
At the time, the city of Miami Mayor Francis Suarez was really obsessed with cryptocurrency. Miami Coin actually ended up not doing well at all. I don't know what they were trying to give that money for, but we were able to bring it back to climate.
Cody Simms (12:23):
The millage. That sounds amazingly cool for an official government process of throwing millions of dollars around.
Katrina Erwin (12:31):
Yeah, right? It makes it seem more fun.
Cody Simms (12:33):
So, tell me what the CLEO Institute is all about.
Katrina Erwin (12:35):
Yeah, so the CLEO Institute started in 2010, when our founder, Caroline Lewis, who was a science teacher here in Miami...
Glennys Navarrete (12:43):
Sweetest woman ever.
Katrina Erwin (12:44):
Yes, sweetest woman. She realized that there was a lack of apathy for the climate crisis, and she didn't understand why, because this place is ground zero. And she really realized that the issue was because of lack of education.
(12:56):
So that's how the CLEO Institute was born. She was teaching people how to accurately communicate the science, impacts, and solutions to the climate crisis. I don't even think it was the CLEO Institute at first, it was a project that she was only going to do for a few months.
(13:11):
And then this project ended up being so successful that she was like, there is a need for climate education here in Miami. And she went to communities in Miami, frontline community that are getting impacted by climate gentrification.
(13:25):
And for those of you who don't know what climate gentrification is, it's basically, here in Miami our historically black and brown communities. They are above sea level rise. They are a safe distance above sea level rise.
Glennys Navarrete (13:38):
Because everybody that has a little bit of extra cash in their pocket want that front, see ocean views. They didn't think about, oh, this may not be here for much longer.
Katrina Erwin (13:47):
Yeah. So there's a lot of developers here in Miami that are encouraging climate gentrification in these communities.
Cody Simms (13:54):
So the in-demand areas are starting to be things that are more uphill, I guess, from the beach.
Katrina Erwin (13:59):
Exactly. And it's funny to me, because people are rejecting that climate change is real, but obviously the developers know it's real. Ugh, which really pisses me off.
(14:07):
So she was going to these frontline communities, and she was having town halls to really educate them on climate, and this really made a difference in these communities. And it was just making a difference in education here in Miami. And that's kind of how the CLEO Institute was born.
(14:22):
So we first started doing programmatic work with our CLEO Speakers Network, which was the educational component where she taught people the science impacts and solutions. Which, she would give people a PowerPoint, she would explain it to them, and then people would explain it back to her. And then they were certified climate speakers here in Miami, and could go in their community and speak to their community members about it.
Cody Simms (14:44):
Is this education with a big E or little E? Is it in the schools, or are these more programs that people could lean into in the early days? I know you do work in schools now, but as it was getting going, was there always a focus on K through 12, or was this more about broader climate literacy across the populace?
Glennys Navarrete (15:02):
Before, I mean now we're in schools, right? We're in college, high school, all that's good stuff. But before, if I'm not mistaken, she still had a focus on schools. But we weren't implemented like a club yet. It was pretty much just going in, having the presentation. What we call climate presentations.
(15:17):
Now we have so many different programs that everybody has their own little portion of CLEO. Basically, we would be going into schools, but it was more of a class, a year long-thing. It was maybe a project that we would start, and then eventually it turned into what it is now, which is we run with the school year. We're there all year.
Cody Simms (15:37):
So it's integrated into the curriculum now, to where you're working on an SDG-related project in your school curriculum, or what does it look like?
Glennys Navarrete (15:46):
So I started with CLEO maybe a year ago, and no, it's not in the curriculum just yet. But with the help of my colleague, Diego Molina Gatrion, we are so excited to start working on that. And we do have a couple tricks up our sleeves starting in the new school year, where we will be getting this implemented into a marine biology curriculum for a school in Broward County. It's a huge step. Because as you know, it's not easy to get this done
Cody Simms (16:14):
I was going to ask, you can't have this conversation and talk about schools without using the word woke. And how does it work to actually get curriculum like this implemented into a school where there is, by almost default, going to be some kind of political pushback on it? Even though we all know this shouldn't be a political conversation, but it clearly is.
Glennys Navarrete (16:38):
So in this case I met the teacher, her name is Kristen. She actually is teaching for a charter school, so they operate a little differently. But what I think is beautiful about this program is that she and I both know that it is where we can take that start to show others how you can follow suit. Being very careful and mindful of the society that we're in right now, and making sure that we get to the facts.
(17:04):
We're nonpartisan, we're educational, we're not here to give you our opinions. We're here to just show you what the science is. And so we focused a lot of our time working with our school's curriculum manager, Carolyn Burns. And she also helped us fit into what they're already learning in their school, and that education that we give them.
Cody Simms (17:25):
So focusing on the atmospheric science of greenhouse gases, focus on the implications of climate change from sea-level rise, and wildfires, and global warming. Where do you look at things, and what is the goal in terms of the student learning?
Glennys Navarrete (17:44):
The goal is for them to know the solutions. Because a lot of the times, they already know the science behind greenhouse gas effect and greenhouse gases. But then that's where it ends. And then you get things like, oh, recycling is the solution, and that barely touches the mark.
(17:59):
And what we want to make sure is that by the end of the program, they understand the science so well that they're able to provide that information accurately. Because you hear a lot of things. A lot of people tell you, I don't believe in the greenhouse effect, it's a bad thing. It's not a bad thing.
(18:15):
Or, I don't believe in global warming. Well, these are the steps to get here. It's not just global warming, it's a whole climate, everything is impacted by it. So we try to stay away from trigger words, because that's where that misinformation comes in.
Cody Simms (18:28):
What are the biggest trigger words?
Glennys Navarrete (18:29):
Oh, global warming. Oh, you say that, I don't believe in global warming.
Katrina Erwin (18:33):
Or people hate the word, the climate crisis.
Glennys Navarrete (18:35):
Yes.
Katrina Erwin (18:35):
People hate that word.
Glennys Navarrete (18:37):
When I go into schools and I'm speaking to the students, I kind of focus on just letting them know, hey, this is ... The sky is blue, two plus two is four. And these aren't opinions that are coming out of my own pocket. We work with reputable institutions that provide us with really good information, really good data. And it just sucks. Because in order to lead in a positive climate future with the youth, you have to sometimes shake out that misinformation that sometimes the older generation may have had. That's where true change comes from.
(19:12):
Making sure that they know your parents, well, he's an accountant. There's scientists that are really bringing in all of this information together, and we're not here to bash anyone.
Cody Simms (19:21):
That's actually one of the topics I really wanted to spend some time on, was how can parents help? I'm guessing most of my listeners to the show probably aren't high schoolers, but many of them probably have kids who are high schoolers. What do you see as the most effective parents at helping kids really lean into the future, and where do you see issues as well?
Katrina Erwin (19:45):
I just want to make a comment, and then you can handle this one if you want to. One thing that I think is really funny when we're talking about parents, actually some of the best activists that I know are ones whose parents are climate deniers. And I think it kind of comes from a place of resistance and everything.
(20:00):
But we have this one activist, her name is Gabby. And I think what makes her such a great activist really is because of her mom. She's a professor at University of Miami, and she's just been such a great mom to Gabby. Gabby always says the story that when she was in middle school, her mom actually took her to a climate strike. And she signed Gabby out of school that day, because a lot of climate strikes happen during school hours.
(20:25):
So if you're a parent and you're listening, how can you support your kid who's a climate activist? Sign them out of school on days where there's something important happening, really support their activism, and make sure that you're there to back them up. Help them with rides, help them with the transportation that they need, if they have friends that don't have transportation. If you can afford to do that or if you can drive them there, that's always really important. And just supporting your child.
(20:48):
And she's just been such a rockstar with Gabby ever since then. She got Gabby interested in our youth advocacy program, and now Gabby's actually one of our big climate champions here in Miami. She's going into her senior year this upcoming fall, and it's just been so incredible to watch her grow. She's been to City of Miami meeting, she's been to Miami-Dade County Commission meetings, and it's just been so great.
(21:13):
And she actually was at our lobby day that we just had in March, where we brought up a bunch of young people from Tallahassee. And I just think all parents should be like Gabby's mom if they can. Her mom got Gabby there 15 minutes early to go on the bus to Tallahassee. And she was one of the first people there because everyone in Miami's always late. And she just stood with Gabby the whole time until the bus left.
(21:40):
She was making sure that Gabby made friends, and just talking. And since she was a professor there, she was able to help us. The bus stop was at UM. So since she was a professor at UM, she was just helping out the CLEO staff with having people come in to use the bathroom, because you need a key card there.
(21:56):
And just seeing the way that her mom just not only supports her daughter, but supports the people that are working for the organization that her daughter works for, it's just been really great.
Glennys Navarrete (22:05):
That's parenting goals. I can't wait to be like that one day.
Katrina Erwin (22:09):
But obviously, I do want to be transparent. And we all know that not a lot of parents can financially do that, or can be as present.
Glennys Navarrete (22:18):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think a big part of getting parents engaged is when you love your child, they're going to come up to you with the crazy. I want to be an astronaut, I want to be a potato. Kids say the darndest things.
(22:32):
But as a parent, it's your job to nurture and care and support for your child. Whether you're still figuring it out. But once they have that fire, I've come across students, fourth graders, eighth graders, as young as possible, where I look at them sometimes and I'm like, "What are you doing? You're going to go speak at a city meeting. Wow, that's beautiful."
(22:52):
And yes, like Katrina mentioned, it is a beautiful thing to have the parents that provide that time, financial transportation, all of that, right?
Katrina Erwin (23:00):
If you're privileged and you can please do it.
Glennys Navarrete (23:03):
Yeah. And that's a beautiful thing.
(23:04):
But when it comes to parenting, and then those for the frontline communities and minority communities that don't really have that, growing up I didn't have that. My father died when I was very young, so my mother took on that role of provider. So I didn't have those opportunities, unfortunately.
(23:19):
And that's why as an adult now I'm like, anything I can do to help the parents help their kids ... Because it's not that they don't want to, it's simply that they just can't. There's situations and circumstances that they just can't, right? But I believe that every parent wants the best for their kid. And if given the opportunity to help that parent make that happen for their child, I think that's the best way to start things.
(23:42):
And that's what I like a lot about CLEO, is that we're very focused with the youth, and we want to make sure that at all times they have those opportunities. We offer internships. You can't get to the meeting that day? Let's get you an Uber. There's a field trip here, let's get you out. We did a field trip, Katrina led the field trip last year in the summer to get kids more involved with, where did we go again?
Katrina Erwin (24:02):
We went to Bisque National Park. If you don't have the financial needs to support that, just at least sign a permission slip, please.
Glennys Navarrete (24:11):
But we need more of that. We need more organizations that focus not just on, oh yeah, here's the opportunity. We want to get into those communities where children don't have that same privilege.
(24:22):
I've gone to so many different schools where it's like, wow, this school is topnotch. You have your lab here, you guys are raising coral. What is going on? And then you go to other schools that barely have good laptops. I think that if we as adults start coming together to provide more opportunities that are fair for everyone, then we really stand a chance when it comes to raising our youth and making sure that parents don't feel so alone.
Yin Lu (24:48):
Hey everyone. I'm Yin, a partner at MCJ Collective, here to take a quick minute to tell you about our MCJ membership community, which is born out of a collective thirst for peer-to-peer learning and doing that goes beyond just listening to the podcast.
(25:01):
We started in 2019 and have grown to thousands of members globally. Each week we're inspired by people who join with different backgrounds and points of view. What we all share is a deep curiosity to learn ,and a bias to action around ways to accelerate solutions to climate change.
(25:15):
Some awesome initiatives have come out of the community. A number of founding teams have met, several nonprofits have been established, and a bunch of hiring has been done. Many early-stage investments have been made, as well as ongoing events and programming, like monthly women in climate meetups, idea jam sessions for early-stage founders, climate book club, art workshops and more.
(25:35):
Whether you've been in the climate space for a while or just embarking on your journey, having a community to support you is important. If you want to learn more, head over to MCJcollective.com and click on the members tab at the top. Thanks, and enjoy the rest of the show.
Cody Simms (25:49):
I think the thing that strikes me about kids, I use kids broadly, and climate change, is the statement that those of us that are the least responsible for climate change are the most impacted.
(26:01):
We often use that statement to refer to geographical constraints, the global south, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a generational impact there too. Which again, kids are least responsible for climate change, and are going to have their lives most impacted by it. In the most recent IPCC report, there was an incredible infographic in the report that showed, based on emissions reductions levels, what the temperature and sort of broad impact of climate is going to be by generation, comparing someone who was born in 1950 to someone who was born in the 1970s, to someone who was born in 2020.
(26:39):
And it was dramatic on how much your life was going to look different by the time you were 70 or 75 years old, depending on when you were born from a global climate change perspective. And it strikes me that with kids, I like to think about insiders versus outsiders.
(26:57):
Kids today are all outsiders, none of them are insiders. None of them are inside influential circles, necessarily. And so how do kids leverage that outsider status to make a difference, and to be able to come together from a power alley perspective? And this is what you all do every day, so I'm really interested to hear how you think about this.
Katrina Erwin (27:21):
Gosh, that's a really hard question. I still think it's something that a lot of people are still struggling with figuring out how to do it. Because we are seeing now that a lot of big institutions, and even international institutions, they're incorporating a lot of young people.
(27:38):
But we also have to make sure that when we are doing work with young people, that we're not tokenizing them. I know there's a lot of situations where I'll be speaking to a young person and they'll say, "Yeah, I was invited to come here, but no one actually listened to what I said, and they just wanted me to be there."
(27:54):
So I think the first step to even doing that is creating spaces where young people can actually be heard, and they're not being tokenized. And I think one of the first steps to doing that is just teaching them about their power when they're in elementary school, and just educating them on that. And then teaching them the steps that they could take to really go out in their community and make a difference.
(28:19):
A lot of really great activists here in Miami that are really fighting what's going on in this area are high schoolers.
Glennys Navarrete (28:26):
I think also relating to students, too. Some students have learned about this since elementary. Depends on the educator, depends on their parents. And then you have certain circumstances in which some students just have no idea what even carbon is. And it's not to say that they're falling behind on things, it's just how can you make a child care about the climate crisis when they go back home, and they don't see maybe mom or dad for the whole day because they're working to provide food. Or usually the older siblings in the households become that guardian.
Cody Simms (29:05):
Is the goal to get more kids to care about the climate crisis or, is the goal to educate the ones who do care to be able to speak about it with some degree of, I don't know if authority is the right word, but some degree of detailed knowledge. So that when they do speak about it, they're viewed as closer to an insider, closer to credibility with their messages?
Katrina Erwin (29:27):
I would say both is our theory of change, but it really is to get those people that are keyboard activists and they're saying that they care and that they're upset and they want to do something, to actually go and do something about it.
Glennys Navarrete (29:40):
Giving that confidence to the students that feel like, ah, I don't really know much about it.
Katrina Erwin (29:43):
You're teaching them, yeah.
Glennys Navarrete (29:45):
Yeah. Because a lot of the times people don't get involved because they think, I don't know much about it. I need all these years of experience. I need to speak a certain type of way to fit in. And the truth is, you don't. The truth is, all you need to know is what is going on in your community, right?
(29:58):
Oh man, I play football after school, whatever the case may be. It's so hot, someone fainted the other day. Well, those aren't just things that happen.
Cody Simms (30:05):
Those are stories.
Glennys Navarrete (30:07):
Exactly. And if you show them what their power is and what's going on in their own backyard, then they take that and that's their message. And there's nothing stronger than your truth.
Cody Simms (30:18):
What are the outlets for that? So back to, how do you help them harness their power, find their power alleys? Where have you seen youth be most effective at pushing through successful change?
Glennys Navarrete (30:32):
In my opinion, through just the CLEO work that we've done. Oh, man. When it comes to getting them in front of local meetings and city meetings with Katrina. Because they definitely feel like I'm finally being heard. Even if it's just a two-minute comment, they're there sharing their story, their experience, that people that are in charge to let them know I'm here. And you are here because of us.
(30:55):
And I think that they get the most passionate about that. We work in a way where we educate you on what's going on, we show you the solutions. And then we tell you, all right, this is how you can take action. And this is how we work so well together, because I'm at the front ends of that, and she's more on the later stages. Once they know this is what I want to do, this is what I'm passionate about it.
(31:16):
And I have seen stories like Gabby, Nicole, we have another student, Asher, these are all powerhouses that are to fear them when they become of age. Because man, once they can vote, they're taking things by storm now. So I really do think that when it comes to advocacy portion, that's when they feel like, okay, I'm finally making that change. And you don't need to be 18 to share your comment. Like I said, you can be in elementary and make these comments.
Katrina Erwin (31:43):
Yeah. Just because you can't vote doesn't mean you can't go to a commission meeting, and doesn't mean you can't go to the state Capitol Commission meetings either.
Cody Simms (31:51):
And Katrina, I'm guessing most city council meetings or more local meetings than that, neighborhood council meetings are boring, filled with people who are 50 years older than these students, who are retired and have some time on their hands. What are you encouraging students to do when they show up to these? What does it look like?
Katrina Erwin (32:10):
So it's actually really funny when you were talking about the whole inner circle. People here in local government, they're really excited whenever they see young people show up. Because I kind of think that they know that this is kind of boring to some people. And they're like, oh my God, someone cares.
Cody Simms (32:27):
It's about to get spicy.
Katrina Erwin (32:27):
Yeah, they're actually here. And we went to this one meeting for City of South Miami, and we were going off on them. And the mayor was like, "I'm so happy you guys are here. Please come back. This is so great."
(32:39):
And I think what encourages the young people is they will be like, oh my God, this is so boring. But actually, Miami politics are spicy. And I have never been to a Miami Commission meeting that I actually didn't enjoy going to because it was a reality TV show. So it shows the young people, these are the people that we have in charge here, and you're actually a lot smarter than them. You need to educate them, because they don't even know what they're talking about.
(33:04):
And that gives them even more power. They're like, you're right. These people don't know what they're talking about. And then they really go up there with even more power to explain to these people what they're doing wrong, and how badly they need to listen to the scientist. And most importantly, the young people whose future is in their hands
Cody Simms (33:19):
From a theory of change perspective, to some extent back to this insider-outsider question, there's the notion that there's power numbers, and you're an outsider until all of a sudden there are more of us than there are of you. And then now we're all the insiders.
(33:33):
And that's sort of theory of revolution. All of a sudden you look around the space and realize that the people who held what people thought was the minority opinion actually are the majority, and can push change that way sort of by force. And then there's kind of the compromise, which is we're going to come in, we're going to play your game. There might be fewer of us than you right now, but we're helping all of us to get smarter together.
(33:58):
How do you see that happening? In the youth movement, we've seen climate strikes. We've seen hardcore, we're going to push the agenda from the outside type of movements. And then we've seen what you've just laid out, which is like you're going to show up to a council meeting and you're going to present well, and you're going to help people understand that you understand the issues and try to convince them to change. How do you view the effectiveness of those two different types of pushing for change?
Katrina Erwin (34:23):
So unfortunately, I'm not going to side with either. I think there's a time and a place for both situations. So there is a time to work with politicians when they actually are working with us, and they're listening to us. If a politician is listening to us and they are eager to get involved and help us, yes, let's work together and educate.
(34:42):
If you are a politician that is refusing to work with us, no matter how hard we are pleading, no matter how hard we are trying to get a meeting with you, or maybe you lied to us and you said you were going to do something and you aren't, that's when we show up in numbers and start striking.
Cody Simms (34:55):
Yeah. Okay, interesting. And helping kids understand the balance of when to use those different tactics feels like a really strong leadership skill to learn.
Katrina Erwin (35:07):
And it is important to know those tactics. Because you could have an ally, and if you don't do research on that political ally that you're targeting, and you start going off with a climate strike right off the bat, you have no insiders letting you in the door. You need to do your research.
Cody Simms (35:22):
How do you help folks do that?
Katrina Erwin (35:24):
There's something in the political movement called power mapping. Which I explain it to young people, I'm like, you basically just stalk the crap out of this person, and find them on the internet. We're all good at doing this. You've done this for an ex-boyfriend or an ex-girlfriend before, you know how to do this.
(35:39):
So I teach them how to do that. So you look at their social media outlets, you look at their political profiles, you just Google everything about them. And then through Googling you can kind of figure out what their opinion is on something.
(35:53):
And then once you do your power mapping, then if you think that this person could be good to speak to, then you go about and talk to them. But I even recommend even, if you're doing a power map on someone and they seem horrible, to still have a meeting with them first if you're able to get one. And then take action if you're not getting what you want.
Glennys Navarrete (36:11):
Also, as being young and in the movement itself, social media is a big ... Going out and doing your own research. I think a lot of the work that we focus here on CLEO too, especially the Gen CLEO movement, is showing them, all right, well, this is how you get started. This is how you investigate. You find out for yourself.
(36:28):
But just in case here, let's show you how you can speak to your representatives. There's a way of doing things. It's not just going in with the rah-rah, because that's not going to be effective. So you're not only showing them the science and the impacts and solutions, but you're giving them the tools to become effective leaders within their community.
(36:45):
And Katrina focuses a lot with the Gen CLEO statewide meetings, which is where we meet up once a month and we kind of just show them what's going on locally, statewide. We're just giving you the information. And with that information we're going to show you, okay, well if you don't like this, if you like this, whatever the case may be, here is how you can take action. These are the steps.
(37:05):
This is what you should avoid. This is what you should lead into. We teach them also how to write letters if they're not really good, some people don't like public speaking. So we're giving them the tools. It's not just like, hey, go do this.
(37:17):
No, we're going to sit here and walk you through it because we want you to feel confident with it, not intimidated by anything. Because it's not that scary once you're there.
Cody Simms (37:26):
Glennys, you mentioned social media, which was one of the things I wanted to make sure we touch on. Social media obviously can have incredible harm from a misinformation perspective, but also can be an incredible organizing tool. How are you seeing kids in particular using social media effectively?
Glennys Navarrete (37:44):
So when it comes to doing their power maps, and going out and doing their research on representatives, we also have to keep in mind that the easiest way to get access to them and what they're doing is through their social media, whether you like that representative or not. You learn firsthand what they're doing. And if something seems sketchy to you, that's when I personally dive deep into, what does this really mean? What is he really doing? What does he stand for?
(38:08):
But I personally like being in the loop immediately, as soon as it comes out. Tweeted something, you posted something. Okay, that's fine. Let's not just follow the people we like. We need to pay attention to the people that we maybe don't agree with, and that's why I think social media is a big plus, because they're already on it 24-7 anyways, so might as well use it for some type of good.
(38:29):
And in this movement, a lot of the times we have art creators, social media influencers, they are really taking control.
Katrina Erwin (38:37):
There's a lot of great climate content creators out there.
Glennys Navarrete (38:40):
Yes, it's a great way to stay in the loop in a fun way, that it's not just I'm going to scroll through six, seven, eight pages on Google and maybe not understand it. There is a lot of misinformation, so of course, definitely do your own research. But if you find that one person that speaks to you, and gives you all the facts. And you feel like, all right, I've checked them out, checked her out, whatever, and they pass the test, then you have that automatic loop with someone who is there for you to help you understand.
(39:07):
Because at this point, especially with the youth, it's really just having them like a big brother, big sister type of thing.
Katrina Erwin (39:13):
With that being said, it's just important to, going off what Glennys was saying, is that you just need to know who you're following and where you're getting that information from. There's a lot of climate content creators that are sharing information that is always very factual, and they also give action items.
(39:29):
So it's just really important to be like, this person? They have really good credibility also with organizations as well. Just know what type of organization and know what type of content creator is putting that information out there. And if it wasn't actually for social media, everything that we're hearing about the climate crisis, we probably wouldn't really hear about that all that much.
Cody Simms (39:49):
Who are some of your favorite creators that you want to shout out that folks should think about following?
Glennys Navarrete (39:54):
Right now I'm really big into following Anna Skamani.
Katrina Erwin (39:57):
Oh, yeah. She's a really awesome Florida representative. We really love her. She's actually the only person in the Florida state legislature that doesn't take money from corporations. There might be a couple others, but she's really known for that.
(40:10):
I really like Queer Brown Vegan, he's really great. Black Girl Environmentalist, which is, we just interviewed.
Glennys Navarrete (40:17):
Ariel King.
Katrina Erwin (40:18):
Yeah. Well, Ariel King is the director, or the social media creator for.
Glennys Navarrete (40:23):
[inaudible 00:40:23] page.
Katrina Erwin (40:23):
Yes.
Glennys Navarrete (40:23):
Black girl environmentalist.
Katrina Erwin (40:25):
And then obviously the CLEO Institute, if you follow our page.
Cody Simms (40:28):
Sure. And most of this is going to be
Katrina Erwin (40:31):
Instagram, TikTok. Yeah.
Glennys Navarrete (40:32):
Unfortunately, I'm not a big Twitter girl. So yeah, I'm like, Instagram, I'll find it. If not, I'll just do my own research. I wish I was into Twitter. That's where the news goes first. But I just couldn't ever get into it.
Cody Simms (40:44):
Another topic that I'm interested to hear your perspective on is how to motivate people, and how much of reality needs to be communicated. In particular, how dire things can be to motivate people into action, and how much of it is about inspiring people with stories of action?
(41:06):
I am of the general inclination that most kids know climate change is going to be bad, and hitting them upside the head with more badness probably doesn't motivate a lot, but I don't know if that's accurate or not. That's just a perspective I have.
Katrina Erwin (41:22):
I agree with you. I think if you're just going to be going with the doom and gloom, no one's going to do anything about it. That's literally how I was. I did not care about climate change or climate advocacy because I thought it was hopeless. And once I learned about the solutions and all of the wins for the climate movement, that's when I got into it. You need to have climate optimism in order to do any effective sort of organizing in this movement.
Glennys Navarrete (41:47):
My experience would be a little different, especially just seeing how I hopped into the movement. I think that when it comes to the youth, yes, I don't want to doom and gloom you to death. That's definitely not the point. But I want to show you an angle in which maybe you didn't see it before. Because a lot of the times it's like, oh yeah, we have to save our glaciers.
(42:09):
What are you going to ... A child that focuses on getting home maybe doesn't have a laptop, or shares a laptop with six other people, you're not going to reach them that way.
(42:18):
You have to be able to tell these stories and share these experiences with people in where it matters to their life. I'm not going to speak to them in a general sense because that doesn't solve anything. That doesn't bring the issue to their attention.
(42:32):
And then once we can give them, this is how it's impacting you right now, but these are the solutions. So it's not so much doom and gloom, it's just more of a, maybe you weren't given that information before.
Katrina Erwin (42:43):
Bringing it local.
Glennys Navarrete (42:44):
Exactly.
Katrina Erwin (42:45):
I agree with that.
Cody Simms (42:46):
Yeah. You mentioned the story of football practice, where all of a sudden you had a teammate who fainted, right? So just helping people to contextualize it sounds like, into their daily reality.
Glennys Navarrete (42:56):
I tell them about the polar bears and they're like, oh, man, that's sad. They've never seen a polar bear.
Katrina Erwin (43:01):
I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm just so against the polar bear graphics. All they do is, it just disconnects people from the movement. I'm sure it brings in certain people, but it goes against my theory of change. That I'm all about local advocacy, and I think by showing something that's happening thousands, if not millions of miles away from where you are, that's not going to get anyone acting. They're just going to be sad.
(43:26):
Trust me, I've cried a million times over the polar bears.
Glennys Navarrete (43:29):
I still do.
Katrina Erwin (43:29):
It's so sad. It is so, so sad. But that's not how you get anyone off their couch.
Cody Simms (43:34):
Yeah, wow. The simplicity of that is really profound to me, actually. Just communicate the issue of what you are dealing with every day. And hey, here's how you can help change it. And by the way, it's also kind of sad in itself, that we are facing these issues every day, because climate change is very real and is in our lives now.
Katrina Erwin (43:53):
No, it's a hundred percent. And there's people that are impacting it every day, especially when it comes to extreme heat, which I'm sure is a big thing for you over in California as well. Heat is a silent killer, and it kills thousands of people every year, and that does not end up getting documented or reported on because it's not something that you could physically see.
Cody Simms (44:13):
I was listening to one of your earlier episodes, where you were talking about how in Florida there was legislation passed to allow professional sports teams to not have to play in times of extreme heat, and yet that legislation still has not passed for hourly workers.
Glennys Navarrete (44:26):
For our farm workers.
Katrina Erwin (44:28):
Yeah. It's really, really bad. And those are the people that we need to be fighting for. Which is why we need to prioritize justice in any way. Because there's some white environmentalists out there that are like, that is a huge win. Our athletes are protected. That's it. We don't have to do anything anymore.
(44:46):
When they don't realize that our outdoor workers, that are literally the backbone of our state, they have no rights right now. And they are dying, and they're getting hospitalized at accelerated rates. And our legislature here in Florida is refusing to do anything about it.
Cody Simms (45:02):
So that was my little plug for your podcast, but tell me a little bit about the House on Fire Podcast.
Katrina Erwin (45:08):
Oh, okay. So our podcast, House on Fire, has actually had a lot of hosts. It started back at the end of 2019 where it was coined by the infamous Greta Thunberg, with the phrase, "Our House is on Fire." So that's kind of where our name comes from.
(45:27):
And our original host were Gabby Rodriguez and JP Mejia. They were a really great youth activists here in Miami. And because they're really great youth activists, they actually went on to focus more on really important things going on federally. So JP is doing really great work for the Sunrise movement in DC, and then Gabby's currently at the Yale School for Climate and doing really incredible work there.
(45:51):
So that's when it was like a youth-centered podcast, and then me and Caroline Lewis, the founder, were doing it for a bit as well. Glennys and I are taking it over. What we really love to do with this podcast is highlight the urgent action for climate, and then also talk to people from all across the world about different actions that they're doing. As well as scientists, and just really educate people on what's going on.
Glennys Navarrete (46:16):
There's not one right way of getting into the movement. Everybody is tackling it from different angles, and that's what we like to shine light on for the House on Fire podcast. Because you can get into climate tech. We had a guest, Hila the Killa, who now goes by Hila the Earth. She is a social media creator, and she starts off by doing a lot of theater.
(46:37):
And then you have local representatives that come on the show, you have other educators, strong community leaders. The best way to get involved is just to start. And I think that by sharing the stories that we have on the House on Fire Podcast, it'll spark that fire into someone else who maybe thinks that this isn't the right way.
(46:55):
Well, there is no right way. Just start your way is the right way. How about that?
Katrina Erwin (47:00):
I agree with that. I love that.
Cody Simms (47:02):
Well, Glennys, Katrina, I love it too. And I really appreciate you coming on, and just helping. Look, I'm a 40-something year old dude. Helping me understand what people who are a generation or two younger than me are thinking about, and how they're able to harness their power and be most effective. And the work that you two are doing at CLEO Institute to educate and inspire more of them to do it, and to do it more effectively, is such an important message.
(47:30):
Anything I didn't ask, or any topics we should have gone into that we haven't?
Glennys Navarrete (47:33):
For anyone that's maybe listening in Miami, we do have a Earth Day campaign going on right now. We're doing a walkathon 5K, if you guys want to join in, just visit our website and you can have more information on that. Other than that, support your local organizations that are doing the change.
(47:48):
If you can't make it out to the meeting, if you're not in high school, you're not in college anymore, you're only able to help financially. If possible, help us. Help our programs, help us do the job that needs to be done. And that is your contribution. So check us out.
Katrina Erwin (48:02):
I also just want to say to the people listening, thank you so much for getting educated, and now please act. Act On this crisis now.
Cody Simms (48:10):
Fantastic. Thank you both so much. I appreciate you.
Glennys Navarrete (48:13):
Thank You.
Katrina Erwin (48:13):
Thank you.
Jason Jacobs (48:14):
Thanks again for joining us on My Climate Journey podcast.
Cody Simms (48:19):
At MCJ Collective, we're all about powering collective innovation for climate solutions by breaking down silos and unleashing problem-solving capacity.
Jason Jacobs (48:28):
If you'd like to learn more about MCJ Collective, visit us at mcjcollective.com. And if you have a guest suggestion, let us know that via Twitter at MCJPod.
Yin Lu (48:41):
For weekly climate op-eds jobs, community events, and investment announcements from our MCJ venture funds, be sure to subscribe to our newsletter on our website.
Cody Simms (48:51):
Thanks, and see you next episode.
